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Works by Josip Kosora, vol. The Contacts between two Cultures. Matica hrvatska, proceedings. The Archaeology of Roman Southern Pannonia. The Croatian Academy of Sciences and Arts activity between Strossmayer Book of Hours. Hrvatski studiji et al. Hrvatska akademija znanosti i umjetnosti, Zavod za povijesne znanosti u Dubrovniku, Muzej suvremene umjetnosti Zagreb, proceedings. Closed doors to the future: In Cafe du Dome. Masks on the paragraphs. There is a God - there is no God.

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Central European University Press, London - New York: Faculty of Persian Language and Foreign Languages, Editura Cetatea de Scaun, Steiner, Sanja; Brnjac, Nikolina. Ogranak Matice hrvatske u Dubrovniku, Discovered the Ljubmir by D. Universitas Comeniana Facultas Philosophica Bratislava, Sources of "cantus fractus" from Dalmatia: Franz Steiner Verlag, Hrvatske zemlje u ranome srednjem vijeku. Fabijanec, Sabine Florence; Novak, Zrinka. An International Handbook of the Languages of Europe. Word- formation in the individual European languages. Walter de Gruyter, Institute of Archaeology, Liber Pro Arte, Pavliha, Marko; Padovan, Adriana Vincenca.

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Polska akademija nauk, Music historiography and terra incognita: Repertoire International de Literature Musicale, The process of integration of orthodox montenegrins who settled the south of the istrian peninsula in the 17 th century: Hrvatski institut za povijest - Matica hrvatska, The process of integration of orthodox montenegrins who settled the south of the istrian peninsula in the 17th century: Hrvatski institut za povijest- Matica hrvatska, Zbornik radova u povodu The history Meaning of establishment and action of XI.

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Enter the name of the series to add the book to it. Works can belong to more than one series. In some cases, as with Chronicles of Narnia , disagreements about order necessitate the creation of more than one series. If the series has an order, add a number or other descriptor in parenthesis after the series title eg. By default, it sorts by the number, or alphabetically if there is no number.

If you want to force a particular order, use the character to divide the number and the descriptor. So, " 0 prequel " sorts by 0 under the label "prequel. Marvelle March 3, - Shakespeare used the facts presented in Plutarch's Lives -- which is also listed in the discussion heading along with Suetonius -- and he really followed what Plutarch reported. Modern audiences don't normally know Ancient History as well as they did during Shakespeare's age so to reach an understanding of all that's been said in the play, I've had to read Plutarch and other sources. I'd suggest to those who don't want to read Plutarch or posts that discuss the background -- please don't.

Just pass by such information and allow people to post as they feel. There are different ways of reading and enjoying which is exciting and invigorating to me. I learn a lot from seeing the many ways a text is read. Some ways are quite quite quite different from mine but I accept the differences and expect the same for myself? There's plenty of room at SN for all our perspectives.

Marvelle MegR March 3, - I'm such a slow doofus at times - just caught on last night to what you've done! The flaring NEW indicator in the middle column gives us this week's Q's with a simple click! What's great is that it's now possible to preserve every week's Q's without cluttering header - or without losing prior week's Q's when new ones are posted!

Marvelle , I'm not suggesting that historical stuff be ignored - not by any stretch. What I'm proposing is that we give equal and individual time, respect and especially thoughtful consideration to each - but separately. I am curious about the differences between the real Julius and Shakespeare's Julius. Just want to look at Shakespeare's first since he's the subject of this discussion , and look at him thoroughly before doing the real guy.

Does this make any sense??? I think it's an allegory intended to relieve Brutus of any feelings of gratitude towards Caesar.

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Cassius' story for which he says the subject is honor: The torrent roared, and we did buffet it with lusty sinews, throwing it aside and stemming it with hearts of controversy. But ere we could arrive the point proposed, Caesar cried 'Help me, Cassius, or I sink! The turbulent waters that Caesar invites Cassius to swim and from which Caesar needs rescuing would be the state of Rome -- Caesar plunges in beyond his ability. Caesar dared Cassius to swim with him which alludes, I believe, to the pardon granted by Caesar and then his appointment of Cassius to a post within Caesar's government.

Cassius is trying to persaude Brutus that: He asks why Caesar should be ruler when he is no better man than he, and he implies with his story that Caesar is a weaker man weaker in body and judgment. Honor to a Roman I believe is high public esteem; fame; glory; evidence of distinction. If I'm right about the definition then the story about honor is saying that Caesar hasn't earned his honor except through the efforts of men such as Brutus and Cassius. Cassius therefore implies that he -- and Brutus too -- deserves honor. Perhaps someone can sort this meaning out better than I've been able.

Marvelle Marvelle March 3, - I was trying to understand Cassius' allegory of Caesar and the Tiber River to find after posting that you'd returned to the subject of our different approaches. I'm not the spokesperson for those of us who've investigated the historical JC so I can only reply for myself. Yes I appreciate your thoughts but I gladly -- joyfully -- accept your right to approach Shakespeare's JC your way and I expect to be given the same respect?

I learn from others. Shakespeare's JC follows Plutarch's Lives , which is linked in the heading. If the historical JC confuses you then bypass the historical bits. It's really that easy. Please understand that I won't keep restating my position or responding to others about this subject since I feel that, after a certain period, it takes away from the discussion.

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While I try to find points in a post to which I can respond positively, I may very well bypass other points. Many good points I don't respond to merely for lack of time on my part. There's only so much I can take into my pea-brain! Thanks Meg for mentioning the flaring new indicator in the middle column for new questions. Marvelle Ginny March 3, - Thank you, Pat Westerdale, for the 10 hours you put in Sunday and this morning on this discussion. I think we're rolling now, it's short n sweet, two things I never was. I think it's fine and instructive to the group for people to bring forward anything they'd like to the discussion, let's not stop that, but if it's a good acceptable compromise I myself will only deal with the play in future, and that might help us not get off the track with ol Jules, one of my favorite people!

Hahahaha Sorry about that! So if you all will turn your attention to the Topics for Consideration, you'll find almost every question predicated on a quote from the play and pertaining to the play! Let's see where we are. We've done a super job with the opening scene, Topic 1, and established a new Yes, I think so, but NO!!

Now that I reread what you said, I see you and I are saying something different! You said "Rome thou has lost the breed of Noble Bloods. When went there by an Age, since the great Flood, but it was fam"d with more than with one Man You think it was the appeal to noblity and idealism that moved Brutus but when I saw that I thought Cassius was saying Rome now did not have the noble blood it once had, which included Brutus's ancestor. Is this not FUN?? Jeepers, two different interpretations of the same thing!!

We are, you know? Now here we need to ask ourselves, perhaps, what is being appealed to here? Or shame in that Brutus has not held up the illustrious end of his ancestor? What do you think it was about this that brought Brutus over? More on your wonderful points, but first!!! What are they jealous of?

I agree with Luke at this point hahahaa I wish I could be there with you in the evenings, what fun and what an experience you will all have and us, too, what fun! I like to think about what we're reading and get up with new perspectives? This morning I have two, one of which woke me up at 3 am. Do you realize the way Shakespeare fashions the characters, that there's just enough in each one that could be a little bit in any of us? I squirm when I see Cassius, but I can't say I haven't felt that way? Even "Sour Casca," who of us has not been sour?

There's something in every character that every man can relate to, that's scary. I don't think it's by accident? Suddenly the concept of "Gratitude" is leaping out at me from the pages, I have never seen anybody else write on it as regards this play, this might be a breakthru for us, does it seem to suddenly leap out at you? I'm not sure I can sustain it but it might be fun to try, the play sure starts with it ingratitude. Jury will have to be out on that one. Listen, how about that question on the What do you make of Caesar's thrice being offered the crown?

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Why do you think it takes place offstage? Thank you so much, Pat, for those hours and hours and hours of work. I will return later with thoughts. Right at the moment I have to keep focus on 2Kings which is one of my classes assignment for the day. Maryal Ginny March 3, - Barbara, I liked your slant on Cassius acting " out of fear. Andrea, does it matter? It does to me, but the desire of the group is more important. You can't expect an old Latin teacher not to give it a try, tho? We haven't tried to define what we each mean by "greatness," let's keep it in the back of our minds!

Marvelle, yes, there was some scandal in the fatal campaign of Crassus, actually. I've alwayd considered it sad. Now this that you said is VERY interesting? And you also brought up the "gratitude" thing again, I had missed that! That's two for those who are counting anxiously. Cassius said this was a story about honor. Cassius therefore implies that he -- and Brutus too -- deserve honor.

And of course in the questions we see the word "dishonor" start appearing, we need to watch each man for honorable and dishonorable behaviors. Actually I wonder if we need to define here what we think of as idealistic, and honorable? Or do we need to define those characteristics or "greatness? And then of course there's those fake letters coming up, you know?

Hahahaaha don't you love it? Ceasar, to me, seems a bit paranoid. Immediately, he fears the presence of Cassius. I think Ceasar says that Cassius thinks too much, he's too thin, he reads too much. Ceasar, a man who has come into so much power, is afraid. Reading this made me wonder are all presidents, prime ministers and such people unable to enjoy or master their leadership roles because they must watch their backs or have someone else watch their backs. Do our own brave leaders always have a knot of fear in the pit of their stomach after they make a decision? Was paranoia a natural character trait of the "real" Ceasar?

Hats March 3, - Oh, MegR and Marvelle thanks for helping me have a better understanding of the play. Of course, thank you Ginny and Maryal. Ginny March 3, - And in the modern parallels, you always seem to put your finger on the crux of stuff, now what do you make then of him saying, sort of brushing away his fears, I rather tell thee what is to be feared Than what I fear; for always I am Caesar. And he keeps saying he doesn't fear him, or does he? But I fear him not Yet if my name were liable to fear I do not know the man I should avoid As soon as that spare Cassius.

Looks like to me a struggle is going on with Caesar and it's his name or reputation and his "always I am Caesar" which is causing him to push aside his natural warnings and is he paranoic or unusually shrewd? Since I have so much trouble spelling "font" am going to call self Fontinus yes with the masculine ending hahahaahah BaBi March 3, - I got lost in the pre-discussion, and it took me a while to figure out where everybody had gone. Doesn't that give you loads of confidence in my observations?

It is important, I think, to be aware that all powerful men had their "patrons", which means something different than it does now. These were people who looked to them for patronage, favor, assistance, etc. In return, these patrons gave their loyalty support against opposing factions. The fortunes of the patrons were tied to those of the men they followed. Thus, supporters of Pompey would be highly antagonistic toward Caesar and any who supported him. To me, the keynote of Caesar's character is arrogance.

He knows Cassius is dangerous and to be feared, but his arrogance will not allow him to show any personal fear of him. He warns others of him, but will not permit himself to be kept from anything he has chosen to do. In Shakespeare's day, and excuse me if someone has already addressed this and I missed it many actions were carried on offstage. There was no room for mob scenes, such as the offering of the crown to Caesar. Scenes such as the epileptic fit might be offensive, IMO, to the more aristocratic in the audience, who would not care to see a person of stature having a fit and foaming at the mouth.

It is one thing to be aware that a person has such a malady; it is quite another to allow it to be seen in public. Just a thought on that particular off-stage event. On the offering of the crown, I got the distinct impression that Caesar wanted it, but was testing the temper of the crowd. When it became apparent that it was the refusal of it that the crowd applauded, he did so. But I believe he was hoping they would urge him to take it. My first, and belated, offering. Babi Deems March 3, - But then immediately, we find the half withdrawal of the statement. Maryal Deems March 3, - I'm glad you found your way over from the prediscussion.

We were posting at the same time. We also made the same point that Ginny made about Caesar. I too think that Caesar is shown in the play as arrogant, but he is more complicated than that. He is also superstitious, but he claims to not be superstitious. He seems unwilling to admit that he is like the common run of people. He both believes and disbelieves in superstition at the same time.

He calls the fellow out of the crowd who warns him to Beware the Ides of March and then dismisses him and his information.

Aubrey March 3, - OK someplace I read that a story or play is told in the first chapter or scene. The ingredients are all there albeit disguised. It appears that Flavius and Marullus are supporters of the Republic which was set up to have three equal leaders. Behind the scenes Caesar had the name but little of the money necessary to making the state run. Pompey who had the money as did Crassus and had taken the glory for defeating Spartucus in addition to other great success, had a long standing rival with Crassus.

At this time that rivalry was at a standstill. Caesar manipulated himself into power. His approach included becoming closer to Pompay and marrying his daughter to seal that closeness. He also racked up massive debt social climbing, giving lavish parties in order to break into the upper echelon of politics. Defeating Pompey, Caesar is the future who uses his power to order about and change things as a single power rather than as a member of a Republican approved Triumvirate.

History is the victor's version of history that is the most well known - Caesar's name has gone down in history and therefore, it is easy to think on him as the moral correct leader - Hail to Caesar etc. When in fact there are two sides to this event. I would think Caesar was fearful of anyone who he thought was in his way to singular power and would be arragont as Maryal shares, since he was pulling off a coup affecting the civilized world of the day. Just as I think those who saw him taking the Triumvirate apart, in affect destroying the Republic as it was known, were either angry or afraid of his power.

Flavius and Marullus want to see Caesar out of the limelight and take down during an important feast all tribute to Caesar. This forshadows Caesar walking into the Senate, the building built by Pompey on March All this would play into the Civil Wars in England that all lead up to Elizabeth. Shakespeare set many plays describing these English conflicts onto the stage of the Globe theater. We know an educated person at the time would have studied Latin and Greek therefore they would be familiar with the history of the Caesars. Where as I would think the common folks would see the recent battles of England played out on stage in Roman costume.

We have heard the expression that England is a nation of shop-keepers and therefore having the opening scene filled with trades people would help pull the audience in so they could identify with the play. As for the "allegory" Casius is however you look at him a nasty little man, attempting to arrive at greatness by the pulling down of others. What is this greatness of which we speak, I guess someone who is still being analysed years on, achieved something.

Still memorable and great are not necessarily bedfellows. I remember Atilla the hun as well. The other thing is, I love the diversity of opinion here, it forces me to to relook my attitude, a previously made up mind is beginning to soften here. Maybe julius has the odd endearing quality after all. I guess I am going to have to hold on to myself here in that I am such a believer in shared leadership and have real problems as I observe those who want it all for themselves and that is what I see in Caesar.

Of course there would be no history of mythological preportions if Caesar had not been murdered but I wonder, what other vehicle is there that Cassius and Brutus could have turned to take out a tyrant who had closed off the accepted channels of shared power within their government and they had the army supporting Caesar so a coup was not in the cards.

Sounds like Tito or Peron or can't spell Mosalovich. That's something I would do too. Barbara, you've expressed your thoughts so clearly. I like the idea of shared leadership and would also add shared responsibility. Fear and arrogance reside together in Caesar. He was an old man by then, he'd driven his frail body beyond its limits for too many years and his speeches in Shakespeare intimate that he realizes his death will come rather sooner than later.

BaBi gave us the very substantial reasons for having the offered crown offstage. Then Casca reports what he saw and heard which is another overlay of the offered crown. From these we experience firsthand the origins of Rome's alliances, conflicts and civil strife that will play out in Julius Caesar. One interesting note is that it's Casca alone, not Cassius, who calls the common folk such names as tag-rag and it's Casca who says that the third time Caesar reluctantly refused the crown "the rabblement hooted and clapped their chopped hands and threw up their sweaty nightcaps and uttered such a deal of stinking breath Casca also reports in that same Act 1.

President Bush isn't allowed -- yet, and hopefully never -- to take such actions against dissenting voices. After Casca leaves, Brutus complains that he's grown to be a 'blunt fellow' and Cassius replies that Casca's still a lively person "However he puts on this tardy form. This rudeness is a sauce to his good wit, which gives men stomach to digest his words with better appetite.

Still, Casca's prejudices are hard to take but then I would be one of the rabblement, clapping my chopped hands. Marvelle Deems March 3, - Robinson playing Brutus, then you are more likely to be on Caesar's side. Reverse the roles and you will see the play differently and are more likely to side with Brutus. Shakespeare's plays were acted by a company of players who took different parts in different plays.

Some of these actors were so popular that Shakespeare wrote specific roles with them in mind. An interesting historical fact as well as an insider's joke--one that would have been understood when the play was first performed, but that now needs a footnote--is that apparently the actor who played Polonius in Hamlet had shortly before played Caesar in the play we are reading.

The evidence is in Hamlet where the following exchange occurs. Hamlet says to Polonius: My lord, you played once in the university, you say? That did I, my lord, and was accounted a good actor. What did you enact? I did enact Julius Caesar. I was killed in the Capitol; Brutus killed me. It is very likely that the same actor who played Caesar in the latter play plays Polonius in Hamlet.

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Shakespeare's audience, who would recognize the actor, would get a little chuckle here with the reference to the prior play. And, if you have read Hamlet and remember what an old windbag Polonius was, you get some idea of the actor who probably played Caesar when the play was first produced. There's also a nice bit of foreshadowing here because shortly Hamlet, thinking that it is King Claudius, will stab Polonius fatally when Polonius is hiding behind the arras in the Queen's chamber.

Maryal ALF March 3, - Great job Pat W. What I did want to stress was the question of HOW important did Willie think the historical past was to those who enjoyed his plays. My point was irregardless of what history we've learned or are ignorant of, the plays are to be enjoyed and entertaining. Shakespeare's Caesar then wouldn't have been played sympathetic? Would he have been seen as a usurper or pretender?

Oftentimes I leave final assumptions unsaid in my posts because I think they're so obvious but I decided to go back to Casca whose rude Fool exterior is used to impart information. For the time being I'm trying to understand what the characters are saying and doing and my judgments of those characters will have to wait a while. That's Casca's basic truth which he covered up with a lot of nonsense, Fool that he is.

What Casca says underlines the fears of the ruling class like Brutus and Cassius who prefer to have the power in their hands. Have added my own interps in places and have attempted to include interps from our group. Please feel free to challenge, correct or further clarify anything that I've said. Am reacting to what I've read and interpreted in this play - and not outside stuff.

I have a very thick skin and have absolutely NO problems with interps of Shakespeare's words that are other than mine. Want yours too to help me understand this play better too! Onward, Macduff - oops! Will send those after I do supper. There is irony in the actions of these two in scene i! Dictionary says that a "tribune was the unofficial defender of the rights of the individual" which these two guys are not! He says to Antony "Come on my right hand, for this ear is deaf. Ginny, correct me if I'm wrong - but isn't "sinister" Latin for "left"?

So, Caesar couldn't hear from his left ear, the side of the threatening, unlucky, inauspicious, fraudulent, evil. His comment that the crowd "forgave him with all their hearts. But there's no heed to be taken of them. If Caesar had stabbed their mothers, they would have done no less. Casca also implies that Caesar or someone loyal to him have killed off opposition. Marullus and Flavius for pulling scarfs off Caesar's images are put to silence. You bear too stubborn and too strange a hand over your friend that loves you.

Then must I think you would not have it so. His retelling of the swimming story is petty and a smear campaign! Caesar doesn't order Cassius to do this! Cassius takes the bait and jumps first!!!! NOT a modest man! He compares himself to great Trojan hero Aeneas bearing his father Anchises on his back as they escaped burning Troy to his rescue of Caesar from drowning!

His coward lips did from their color fly" etc. He calls Caesar names without providing specific evidence to support his claims! And isn't this Colossus image just a bit disgusting? NOT too pleasant a picture obliterating views of the sky! Guess this is old Willie having some fun with us again.

Julius Caesar ~ Shakespeare ~ 3/03 ~ Book Club Onl Export

When could they say till now that talked of Rome that her wide walls encompassed but one man? My friend or sister's going to go bungy jumping - so I'm going to do so too??? Not in this lifetime! Not for only "thinking too much", but for not sleeping - for plotting during the night, for not living a balanced life with any joy in it, for being obsessed with others and what he doesn't have that they do!

Ginny's green-eyed monster thrives in this guy! He loves no plays as thou dost , Antony; he hears no music. Such men as he be never at heart's ease whiles they behold a greater than themselves, and therefore are they very dangerous. For who so firm cannot be seduced. This man has no sense!!! GolferJohn March 3, - Lean and cunning, he may have been comparing himself to the wolf who saved Romulus and Remus from drowning.

My view of Cassius is that he would have had equal measures of appreciation for both JC's enourmous talents as well as his flaws. He might have seen himself as an instument for making Caesar whole. However, he was rejected when Caesar failed to promote him and, unlike Iago, was unable to hide his resentment. What could Cassius have done for Caesar? Well, kept him alive for one thing. Caesar was oblivious to the perils the man-who-thought- too-much would have found transparent.

Cassius' lupine tendencies would have let him sniff out any assasination plot before it was fully formed and without the need to be smacked between the eyes by a sooth sayer. Is there evidence that Cassius understood he was more effective as part of a symbiotic pair than by acting alone? He sought out the Brutus to be his front man, knowing that Brutus had at least a veneer of honor. He didn't need Brutus' help to mastermind the plot, but he needed his image to make it sellable.

Could hearing impairment have obscured his reception to the words of the soothsayer? After his seizure was he inattentive as part of a post-ictal depression? We have already discussed his seizure disorder, and in post 43 Marvelle9 shares that he couldn't hear out of his left ear.

One way to tie these two conditions together would involve trauma to his left temporal bone. On the battlefield, JC signalled his presence to both friend and foe by riding around in a scarlet cloak. He must have been both a heroic figure and an inviting target. Is there any evidence he was ever wounded?

I ask because one of the fascinating things about Shakespeare was his uncanny understanding of how health might affect behavior. His description of Lear's Alzheimer's disease would be a good case study even now, and of course, his description predated our knowledge of the disease by almost four centuries. I certainly did not intend offense and apologise if my words were seen as criticism. Malryn Mal March 3, - I am not, nor do I intend to be a participant in this discussion, but I have been reading these very astute and enlightening posts, and something came to my mind.

What about the audience in Shakespeare's day? It was not the silent audience of people awed by Shakespeare's literary feats that one finds today. Below is a quote from an article I found, more of which can be seen at http: Servants, grooms, 'prentices and mechanics jostled each other in the pit, while more or less gay companies filled the boxes. Women of respectability were few, yet sometimes they did attend; and if they were very careful of their reputations they wore masks. On the stage, which ran far out into the auditorium, would be seated a few of the early gallants, playing cards, smoking, waited upon by their pages; and sometimes eating nuts or apples and throwing things out among the crowd.

At first there was little music, but soon players of instruments were added to the company. The stage was covered with straw or rushes. There may have been a painted wall with trees and hedges, or a castle interior with practicable furniture. A placard announced the scene. Stage machinery seems never to have been out of use, though in the early Elizabethan days it was probably primitive.

The audience was near and could view the stage from three sides, so that no "picture" was possible, as in the tennis-court stage of Paris. The inn-court type of stage required a bold, declamatory method in acting and speaking; and these requirements were no doubt speedily reflected in the style of the playwrights. The audience was definitely involved in the story. I'm going to print out the quote to keep. Meg, you're summing up is wonderfully extensive.

I'll touch on a couple of points. I think the gratitude example you mentioned, of Caesar with the crowd at the Circus Maximus, is an additional one if Ginny is keeping track. He says the 'fault The swim never happened literally, nor did Cassius play false. He prefaced the story with "the subject of my story is honor" and begins it with a fairytale-like "For once, upon a raw and gusty day" -- Shakespeare's deliberate near-echoing of 'once upon a time.

The Tiber is the spirit of Rome and it's people, an idea that Shakespeare carefully set up in the earlier speeches of Marullus and Flavius. This setup showed that the Tiber was commonly considered in Ancient Rome to signify the country's soul. Cassius' story is an allegory.

I think the greatest punishment for them would be to lose their positions. JC -- he of the liberal clemency -- would not have dictated a death sentence especially so close to receiving the coveted crown. John, your look at Cassius brings up Cassius intelligence and his ability to listen to others. Listening is something Caesar didn't do except for his inside followers. Cassius would recognize that such limited hearing would be dangerous. Caesar's and Cassius' flaws are tragic ones, as are Brutus' flaws. We're seeing some good traits in Cassius listening, adaptability and many bad traits.

Ambition was an admired and necessary trait for the nobility, yet Caesar went too far. I don't think Cassius was ambitious so much as envious and he hated tyrants. Honor was not 'right action' but was defined by Romans, IMO, as public esteem. It isn't what I'd consider a modern definition of honor. No need for any apologies!! It doesn't get much better than this--we're a good group!

This is a groundbreaking discussion in more than one way, I'm actually totally chuffed, myself! I came in just briefly to point out two things you all may not know till tomorrow morning: If you'll look up to the very top right of this page you'll see the words PRINT PAGE and if you click on that, it does a VERY nice Printer Friendly print out and you can keep this post or that post you wanted to reread or refer to, give it a try if you like to print your things and think about them I do. I don't believe my eyes!!

If ink is a problem, you might want to click on it anyway, it's showing me right this minute posts !!!!!! Also if you click on the Questions Page? The For Your Consideration? And you click PRINT on your browser, it prints out at least mine does a very nice copy with white background and brown ink??!!?? Now I'm going to follow my own advice and print out all your posts and enjoy thinking on them over dinner!!! Dictionary says that a tribune was the unofficial defender of the rights of the individual which these two guys are not!

I think it has a lot to do with which individual's rights you think they should be defending Deems March 3, - I am most heartened to hear that I can print them out, or print some of them out with ease. For some reason I can always read the printed page better than I can the computer screen. I think it's because I can read better looking down than looking across. Thanks, Mal, for the theater information. It is incredible to me to realize that the theaters in Shakespeare's day could hold people.